Changing Voting Strategy Once Again and Rewarding Commenting

2 months ago

Sorry Supporters

For some time I have thought that if I voted immediately after I posted, I would not that any curation rewards myself, but @raz tought me how to support my voters even more, taking my voting power into considering. Check his comment below:

Raz.PNG

Therefore from now on I will wait a couple of hours to vote on my own posts with 100 % voting power, so my supporters get greater curation rewards. But should we even self vote? What are people opinion on this?

Rewarding Commenting

I think this is so important. If we are not doing this, then it becomes all about posting, earning rewards, and repeat. It's great that we can earn rewards on posting stuff we care about, but it's kind of hollow if we don't communicate with each other. Therefore I went on a voting spree and rewarded a lot of comments on the posts from the trending page. People like @trees, @cheech, @gr8fulmag420, @goldendawne, @xtetrahedron, @toker all got some rewards coming their way, because without them commenting it will feel hollow. Keep communicating peeps!

reward comments.PNG



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Yeah, this has been something I've been curious about as well. I should reference this page again because I get all of my info from it basically, https://www.steem.center/index.php?title=Rewards:Formulas#Distribution_of_the_total_payout

I think self-voting early does front-load the 'rshares' and make it more difficult to curate based on the strength of the voter. The curation equation includes dividing by the square root of total rshares, so a curator would want those rshares as low as possible before they vote. The square root of previous rshares also gets subtracted from their potential.

I see voting in general as saying, "This is something that smoke values." Since I already know I like certain things I post, like this album spotlight/review post I did of 'Smoking Songs', it's much more interesting to me to see what other people think. While I want to put my unique voice out here, it's still very helpful for a community to guide me and keep me sane.
I'm glad I didn't self-vote that one, because then I could see that the natural community wasn't that interested in it. It's 100% healthy for me to get that kind of feedback, "Okey doke, maybe don't do full posts about albums." Although I'm still glad it's on the blockchain to state that I'm a fan of their work.

Compare this to someone like @kiefpreston, who I get does a show, and so he may feel more inclined to give himself a cut. At the same time, if you apply the idea of wanting to know community feedback then it seems like he would want it to grow organically from his viewers. I definitely see him as punishing anyone who isn't a whale that would want to possibly curate off him, but it's not like curation is a given people should assume.
On the bright side, maybe he's doing us a favor by not maximizing his vote and taking like 10x out of the pool in curation.

Not only would I push for a change to remove self-votes, but I would open up a debate on whether or not certain level people should be able to vote for each other. I think if whales had to depend on lower levels for votes then that would keep things interesting. Whales would definitely have to keep their attention on the lower crowd, pay attention to the population. No walled garden to run to.

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I would open up a debate on whether or not certain level people should be able to vote for each other.

That would invite alt accounts and automated (self) trails.

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Sure, but at least that would add some steps, force them to create an army of alt accounts. Also locks up some SP into those accounts instead of their main.
Would create a situation where someone would have to be intentionally deceitful.

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My man @trees. Leaving a fucking novel for a comment with quality.

Rewarding comments is the best way to grow community. At least on site. Obviously, also with replying.

Otherwise you only get sheeple wanting your upvote. But they don’t really feel compelled to use VP on you. When you reward their comments... you make a them part of your content too.

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Very true, and you also show that you're not only here to make $$$. Not only grow community, but strengthen the community aswell.

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Especially for those of us who don’t yet have a slider. Each time I post on Smoke I have less upvotes for posts that day because I value upvoting comments more. No matter how small my stake.

When I can afford the VP (I sometimes return the day after and next day), upvoting comments over curation rewards. Good posts will be rewarded nevertheless, my commenters... only those who are in before a dolphin/orca/whale reads.

I don’t selfvote, my stake isn’t enough to care nor does it allow me to distribute a lot. So I prefer to focus on rewarding.

Disclosure: if somebody with a relevant stake upvotes others all day long... I don’t care if they upvote themselves. Their posts... comments that’s a different thing.

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You're a great user to have on the platform, and I really like that we agree upon rewarding commenters. I have thought about not self voting and instead increasing my voting power on my commenters. I could of course do both, but I want to keep my voting power high, so I can reward users as much as possible.

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Thanks, i do my best. :)

I try to live by a “paying it forward” ethos as much as I can. Completely knowing that it doesn’t allow any return to be expected. It’s a rather powerful builder, and also slots in very well with my pursuit of stoicism.

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I think the comment rewards on this post are setting a record, @arsenal49. Many more comment rewards than post rewards.

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This is pure example of what you stated before about upvoting comments.
I think most of the people are neglecting commenting but don't understand that is almost all the time better way in earning. It takes less time and opens interaction.

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And you feel more connected with the community! :)

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Haha yes. Really awesome. I feel the community much more when we are communicating through comments. I love it! :)

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Hi, just read the comments, must sometimes quite stupid ask where to communicate otherwise?
I vote across, sometimes comment times posts. I'll follow you, guess you know all about everything here. Greetings from Germany :-)

Thanks to @raz for clarifying the vote times, and thank you for sharing with us @arsenal49. I think I got a little vote happy today😊 I'll have to stick to commenting until my votes stronger😊

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I sometimes feel bad when my VP is low and I want to comment on post, but I shouldn't upvote it. There is so much gret content that I do not have enough VP to upvote all I want to.

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Like just now, i want to upvote every comment that i see! One day tho, you'll be flying high in the SMOKE! Keep up the awesome works!!!

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Patience my friend, patience.

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I definitely need to work on that😉 I feel like the rabbit from Alice in Wonderland....

*I'm Late!! I'm Late!!!🤗

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Hmmm... that just surprised me. I would have thought that more often than not you felt like the Cheshire Cat. 😁

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Well, both could definitely apply!! I do have a toothy grin a lot of the time😂😁

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5395310-D-4-AEF-417-F-A324-97-A2-AC07-BC69

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That about sums it up!!! I am definitely like that😄

I am with you in voting comments and talking to people on posts. We should always encourage people to interact with the post and ask questions.

I love opening smoke or discord and seeing a bunch comments on my post means that people took the time to read or look and it.

As for self voting that is the hardest question to answer with graphene or Dpos chains like smoke. I hate self voing comments 100% disagree with them. Voting post If you only make 1 or 2 a day it ain't bad buy if your spending your whole 20% vp for the day on your own votes that just shows your only in it for your self.

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I couldn’t agree more with this:

Voting post If you only make 1 or 2 a day it ain't bad buy if your spending your whole 20% vp for the day on your own votes that just shows your only in it for your self.

Also, if your selfvote is worth 2SMOKE and you upvote while posting, you will have 12-18% additional rewards curators don’t have (for a post with around 50-55SMOKE rewards, it becomes slightly less if higher rewards). Even more if your own stake is higher. Stacking early does make a difference, especially for smaller voters if bigger stakeholders also upvote that content.

So it’s a line to walk. As long as there’s distribution with the rest of the VP I also agree one or two selfvotes are fine.

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Yes, agree. I normally don't post that much, so when I do I selfvote. My 100 % vote is just around 25-28 SMOKE. After reading the comment from @raz I have now changed my strategy, so I will vote several hours later, or maybe days. I spend most of my VP on other posts and comments, so I think i'm safe :p

I do interactions on posts of others particularly if the authors are my favorite. I learned from their post especially on growing. I also consider rewarding post of selected newbies so they would be motivated to post more if they see that someone is interested in their articles.

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Voting for newcommers posts and comments is extremely important, so keep doing that! :)

Is self vote good or bad?

That's the million dollar question in this kind of network ;) ... personally I think it's fine as long as there's no obvious abuse as happened in Steemit for example. SMOKE Power is an investment that is made, whether it is with money, time or both together. And logically, it is invested to gain something.

Create a strategy for the self vote depends on how the network works, very good what explains @raz (thanks for that, I did not know very well how it was, now yes) because it gives the basis of the best way. It's the one you want to do, vote several hours after posting.

And rewarding the interaction is always good (something learned in Steemit). I upvote almost all the comments that are made in my posts (except those that are obviously spam) from the beginning.

People that you mentioned here are one of those that really support us, smaller ones. See their names all the time. Thanks people!

Sometimes I really don't know how to thank them so I upvote back and when I do my upvote looks so small in contrast to theirs. Feel like I am just tickling a whale. Hope they notice.

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For whales the interaction is the return you give. You make their content an active place on the site/network.

Most active whales who join early do understand the importance of distribution and creating a middle class as large as possible. Not only can it all feedback in a “paying it forward” loop, but it also leads to a stronger community. Especially when more people join and whales can not cover the daily firehose of content anymore.

At some point whales may also prefer to focus on supporting devs or dApps. So when they have “spread the wealth”... the community is stronger and can support more members. Those whales will note your upvote (while there aren’t too many upvotes per post yet), but even more so if they post they will note your comment if it adds value.

Whales who do not care about distribution/middle class... mostly circle jerk. They don’t support minnows, they only maximize and have a short term focus. A feedback loop is not on their agenda.

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If you make a post of minnows who deserves more attention, then please let me know. I would love to support them ;)

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Just on my post you have commented between 3-5 times, which is confirmation that you're a great user to have on Smoke, so maybe I should have mentioned you in my posts as well. Might make another one about this posts to show how much the community agree with me of rewarding comments.

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Well, I tend to reply and engage with people that do the same. It is the basics of blogging as far as I am concerned.
If people have time to read and reply to your post, I should have enough decency to answer back.

Thanks for the recognition by the way.

Since I was enlighten with how beautiful smoke.network is, I never post but I do upsmoke for the best post ever... I also comment very seldom. And yes I agree community and the best engagement start in good comments.

I believe in self upvoting.. you can't ask someone else to support you if you're not willing to support yourself. Of course this is a lot different if you're shit-posting but a regular post I think you should upvote yourself.. just my opinion.. peace out

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That's actually a pretty good argument for this discussion.

Wait so if I got this right the later we vote up our posts the more gets shared with the community?
And would this work if I unsmoke my post? Cause I didn't know this. Ifni did I would have worked a little differenty. Removing the up imidiet upsmoke from my posts.

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Wait so if I got this right the later we vote up our posts the more gets shared with the community?

Potentially, users with limited vote weight may choose to tactically vote on content before large users do so.

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That's the way it is...by that, curators with less smoke power can get more reward than their vote weight if they vote earlier than large smoke holders

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If you unvote it takes your vote out of the pool and refactors the curation. you could vote again on top. But, just think about it on your next posts instead :)

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OK I will. I'll remove the automatic upvote on my post and upvote later to share more of the Smoke.

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If you upvote while posting, all the curation rewards of your upvote go to yourself and because of “stacking” you will also benefit 12-18% more curation rewards than the curators (with a 2SMOKE upvote on an average 50-55 SMOKE post).

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I see. Then I will work like that from now on. We need to support each other.

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As indica said too, it’s a “strategic” decision. It depends what your focus is: self growth (rewards) or community.

If you have a small stake, voting earlier in the 30 minutes window is beneficial because of stacking (if a post goes popular). If you have a larger stake, the earlier you vote... the more rewards the creator gets (the penalty) and the smaller the curation pool is because the whale has upvoted and a part of their curation rewards went to the creator.

So when curation rewards become competitive you will notice that many smaller stakeholders will try to both frontrun whales and “stack”. They will then mostly focus on voting between 13-17 minutes. Whales tend to focus to vote around 30 minutes not, maybe a little earlier in smaller communities with several whales like right now. Because first one “stacks”.

I’m all for community. But sometimes I may throw an early vote if I have a feeling a post may get lots of rewards and voting later wouldn’t matter because of my own limited stake. I don’t selfvote though.

On Steem 9.5k posts (posts and comments combined), I don’t think I have 10 selfvotes (maybe first few days and then some frontrun experiments... let’s say less than 25 selfvotes)

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And would this work if I unsmoke my post? Cause I didn't know this.

Not sure, it says it resets your curation reward upon unsmoking a post, it might be worth trying sure?

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I'll give it a try. I got nothing to lose to dem smoke my post and upsmoke it in an hour.

Commenting is very neccesary for growth. But revelvant commenting is just as important all the users you have mentioned are great at community engagement with comments that bring something to the table to expand the discussion. Many people leave generic comments that is truly spam and not really bringing anything to the table.

What I do on steemit, and should start doing here on smoke is that I wait until about day 4 or 5 to upvote my own posts. That way, everyone who upvoted my post in the first 2 or 3 days gets a part of that vote in their curation reward.
I haven't started upvoting comments on my posts yet simply because I don't have the slider. Upvoting comments would leave me without upvote power for other people's posts.

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I waited two days to upvote for mine. Hopefully my followers will appreciate that :)

I dont think self voting is a problem for smaller accounts. I self vote on steemit but don't here. I feel I'm big enough here I do well enough that I dont need to self vote. I can use my vote to reward others exclusively.

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I have also thought of that. Now I wait some time, so my self vote is to give my supporters better curation rewards.

Wow such clear and nice explanation. I actually never knew about how this curation works. I tried learning it but always got confused. Thanks to both of you for this through explanation and also caring for the minnows and the community.
I think this should had been compulsory for every whale of this community because i think not all of them have the same thinking.

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If anything should be compulsory it needs to be QUALITY content regarding CANNABIS. Not how to maximize curation rewards for people who are not even posting anything related to cannabis.

is any way to reduce SP during voting

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Once you've got 50k SP, you get a vote slider to reduce your applied vote weight.

Good info
THX

It would be fairer if we wouldn't upvote ourselves and spend voting power for promoting good content...
Smoke up!

I always try to vote the comments, it's an excellent way to generate more profit and I think it's great that you do this post explaining it.